Who stops Warren?

[slu72]

Am sure that's the question the staff is wrestling with today. DE? Gives up 3 ". JB, he'll go off for 50. TL, a Frosh. GG, he'll foul in 5 minutes. Warren's a load.

[Billboy1]

Wouldn't it have been nice to have worked with RA to get some experience before the tourney.

[SLUDrew]

He is a match-up nightmare hence he won ACC player of the year. We do not have one guy who can shut him down so I would not be surprised to see us throw a few guys at him to give him different looks. I would think the primary responsibility would have to go toe Dwayne

[Taj79]

I think the answer is nobody. The key will be not letting others in his supporting cast help him. I think we have to switch folks up on him and put whoever that is on the island by themselves. If we help out on defense, the NC State size is liable to destroy us on the offensive boards. As limited as Anya, Vandenberg and Washington appeared to be, grabbing offensive rebounds and making putbacks from two feet is quite easy, relatively speaking. It's going to take a team effort -- not only on Warren, but moreso on the supporting cast.

I don't care that Tyler Lewis and his back-up Cat Barber were McD All-Americans. I like that they are a sophomore and a freshmen and we counter with seniors -- both of whom were all-defensive guys to boot. Lewis has, however, tallied more assists than points over his last five games sdo we have to watch his distribution as opposed to scoring.

All games are tough in one way or another from here on out.

[NextYearBill]

ill stop him

[brianstl]

Like Taj said, Warren will get his. It would would be worthless to gameplan to stop him.

[billikenfan05]

It is alarming to see this board reverting back to Soderberg era levels of confidence. We have a very good defense...It won't be one player to stop him it will be the team.

[SLUDrew]

I understand the "let's just focus on everyone else" theory but I think we can and need to do better than that. If we "abandon" Warren he could score 35+ and if he does that the rest of the team would not have to do much for them to win.

We got where we are on the back of suffocating half court defense. I would throw DE and JJ at Warren and maybe even GG when and if he is on the floor and tell him to use his allotment of personal fouls.

One great way to slow a prolific scorer is to attack him when he is playing defense. Obviously getting him in foul trouble would be great but at the very least make him expend as much energy as possible on defense.

[NH]

I think the answer is nobody. The key will be not letting others in his supporting cast help him.

I agree with the large majority of your post except for this. I broke down some numbers really quickly.

T.J. Warren averages 24.8 ppg.

NC St. record when he scores more than his average: 13-1

NC St. record when he is held below his average: 9-12

If you take a close look at the game log you can see this point even further. NC St. has played 14 games against tournament teams. Their record in those games is 5-9 (a good sign in and of itself). However, let's look at the trend against tournament teams when TJ Warren scores above his average.

Record when Warren scores 25 or more against tourney teams: 4-1

Record when Warren scores less than 25: 1-8

In my estimation, his supporting cast is simply not good enough to make up for him having a bad game. I expect us to use a similar strategy that we used on Draymond Green in the tournament two years ago, rotating several players of several sizes on him. I would expect Dwayne or Jake to start out on him. Dwayne should guard him as much as foul trouble permits, except for a few times when we put Jett or Glaze on him. When Glaze guards him, I think he should face guard him and prevent him from catching as much as possible (though obviously Warren will get his touches).

I think we should put Mike on Turner, their only consistent 3-point threat this season. Jett should guard Lewis and stop dribble penetration. Whoever isn't guarding Turner should be helping out a lot on Warren.

Thoughts?

[billikenfan05]

I understand the "let's just focus on everyone else" theory but I think we can and need to do better than that. If we "abandon" Warren he could score 35+ and if he does that the rest of the team would not have to do much for them to win.

We got where we are on the back of suffocating half court defense. I would throw DE and JJ at Warren and maybe even GG when and if he is on the floor and tell him to use his allotment of personal fouls.

One great way to slow a prolific scorer is to attack him when he is playing defense. Obviously getting him in foul trouble would be great but at the very least make him expend as much energy as possible on defense.

Beating the Pack will be no different than anyone else...playing Billiken team defense

[brianstl]

I am not saying you let him put up 50. The thing is you are not going to stop Warren by game planning to stop him. He is going to score. The best you are going to do is limit him somewhat. You want to do that you don't do it by game planning against him. You do it by game planning against their guards and limiting the times they get the ball in his hands.

[slufan13]

I agree with the large majority of your post except for this. I broke down some numbers really quickly.

T.J. Warren averages 24.8 ppg.

NC St. record when he scores more than his average: 13-1

NC St. record when he is held below his average: 9-12

If you take a close look at the game log you can see this point even further. NC St. has played 14 games against tournament teams. Their record in those games is 5-9 (a good sign in and of itself). However, let's look at the trend against tournament teams when TJ Warren scores above his average.

Record when Warren scores 25 or more against tourney teams: 4-1

Record when Warren scores less than 25: 1-8

In my estimation, his supporting cast is simply not good enough to make up for him having a bad game. I expect us to use a similar strategy that we used on Draymond Green in the tournament two years ago, rotating several players of several sizes on him. I would expect Dwayne or Jake to start out on him. Dwayne should guard him as much as foul trouble permits, except for a few times when we put Jett or Glaze on him. When Glaze guards him, I think he should face guard him and prevent him from catching as much as possible (though obviously Warren will get his touches).

I think we should put Mike on Turner, their only consistent 3-point threat this season. Jett should guard Lewis and stop dribble penetration. Whoever isn't guarding Turner should be helping out a lot on Warren.

Thoughts?

Agree on Mike on Turner. Jett has seemed to get a little lost on screens lately and Mike is great at denying the ball. Jett's strength and quickness could really cause Lewis problems. Don't know who Barnett guards. After the debacle of Barnett on Micah Mason, I hope he stays miles away from Turner. I actually think he should get a couple shots at Warren.

I think you have to rotate as many guys as possible on Warren to give him different looks. Like last night, he's at his best when he gets in a rhythm. Also, he's really good at drawing fouls and I don't want Evans getting into foul trouble.

Agree with 05. It'll take a team effort to win this game defensively.

We also have to be better on offense obviously. They blocked a good amount of shots last night and driving to the basket with our undersized players could be a problem. But you also have to do it to get their big men in foul trouble. Would be nice if Loe can knock down some shots and stretch the defense. Hope we don't see any zone with their length and shot blocking ability.

[brianstl]

I agree with the large majority of your post except for this. I broke down some numbers really quickly.

T.J. Warren averages 24.8 ppg.

NC St. record when he scores more than his average: 13-1

NC St. record when he is held below his average: 9-12

If you take a close look at the game log you can see this point even further. NC St. has played 14 games against tournament teams. Their record in those games is 5-9 (a good sign in and of itself). However, let's look at the trend against tournament teams when TJ Warren scores above his average.

Record when Warren scores 25 or more against tourney teams: 4-1

Record when Warren scores less than 25: 1-8

In my estimation, his supporting cast is simply not good enough to make up for him having a bad game. I expect us to use a similar strategy that we used on Draymond Green in the tournament two years ago, rotating several players of several sizes on him. I would expect Dwayne or Jake to start out on him. Dwayne should guard him as much as foul trouble permits, except for a few times when we put Jett or Glaze on him. When Glaze guards him, I think he should face guard him and prevent him from catching as much as possible (though obviously Warren will get his touches).

I think we should put Mike on Turner, their only consistent 3-point threat this season. Jett should guard Lewis and stop dribble penetration. Whoever isn't guarding Turner should be helping out a lot on Warren.

Thoughts?

Draymond Green scored his season average in that game. He got his.

[brianstl]

I agree with the large majority of your post except for this. I broke down some numbers really quickly.

T.J. Warren averages 24.8 ppg.

NC St. record when he scores more than his average: 13-1

NC St. record when he is held below his average: 9-12

If you take a close look at the game log you can see this point even further. NC St. has played 14 games against tournament teams. Their record in those games is 5-9 (a good sign in and of itself). However, let's look at the trend against tournament teams when TJ Warren scores above his average.

Record when Warren scores 25 or more against tourney teams: 4-1

Record when Warren scores less than 25: 1-8

In my estimation, his supporting cast is simply not good enough to make up for him having a bad game. I expect us to use a similar strategy that we used on Draymond Green in the tournament two years ago, rotating several players of several sizes on him. I would expect Dwayne or Jake to start out on him. Dwayne should guard him as much as foul trouble permits, except for a few times when we put Jett or Glaze on him. When Glaze guards him, I think he should face guard him and prevent him from catching as much as possible (though obviously Warren will get his touches).

I think we should put Mike on Turner, their only consistent 3-point threat this season. Jett should guard Lewis and stop dribble penetration. Whoever isn't guarding Turner should be helping out a lot on Warren.

Thoughts?

He averaged 19.7 in losses to tournament teams. If you take out the North Carolina Central game (where he was in foul trouble the whole game0, he averaged over 20. I don't think that is stopping him.

[NH]

He averaged 19.7 in losses to tournament teams. If you take out the North Carolina Central game (where he was in foul trouble the whole game0, he averaged over 20. I don't think that is stopping him.

Certainly not stopping him but it's also certainly not "letting him get his points."

I would say the difference between 19.7 ppg in those games compared to the 26.6 he averaged in all other games is pretty significant. He averages 17.7 shots a game in those losses, so holding him to 19-20 is not bad at all.

[majerus mojo]

Draymond Green scored his season average in that game. He got his.

He scored his avg and we lost by 4. The idea would be to hold him below his avg, and win the game. Don't think anyone wants to compare this NCST team to MSU, either.

[wgstl]

I think if Warren gets into any foul trouble, that's when we throw a more athletic DE on him.

[NH]

Draymond Green scored his season average in that game. He got his.

I am not saying you let him put up 50. The thing is you are not going to stop Warren by game planning to stop him. He is going to score. The best you are going to do is limit him somewhat. You want to do that you don't do it by game planning against him. You do it by game planning against their guards and limiting the times they get the ball in his hands.

I think we are more in agreement than you think. I don't expect us to hold Warren to 4 points like UVa did or even to under 15. You saying all we can do is "limit him somewhat" is spot on. All I'm saying is that on a team that relies so heavily on one player, even just limiting him by a few baskets can be the difference, as evidenced by those numbers I posted (at least my interpration of the numbers. I could also be reading too much into them).

I also agree that we can't let the guards get the ball in his hands. Mike and Jordair should hopefully be hounding Lewis, Barber and Turner. If we stop Lewis from getting into the lane like he did against X, we will stay firm in our man and not have to over-rotate. If we get beat off the dribble and are forced into a lot of rotations, then that is how Warren gets easy touches.

[For-DaLove]

I am not saying you let him put up 50. The thing is you are not going to stop Warren by game planning to stop him. He is going to score. The best you are going to do is limit him somewhat. You want to do that you don't do it by game planning against him. You do it by game planning against their guards and limiting the times they get the ball in his hands.

Make no mistake about it, that is still game planning against him. And saying not to game plan against one of the most prolific scorers in the nation is absurd

[wgstl]

Im far more worried about slu getting back to effecient offensive scoring, than warren getting 50 points.

[NH]

Im far more worried about slu getting back to effecient offensive scoring, than warren getting 50 points.

We could really benefit from some defense leading to offense...

[stlhoops]

We throw Dwayne on him and then mix it up as need be. Dwayne only gives up 2 inches and he's used to that. Dwayne weighs 15 pounds more. Warren scores mostly in the paint and directly around it. He does not shoot the three well at all. It will take the entire team for sure. If we play defense like we have it doesn't even matter and we lose. Hopefully this is where we pick it back up.

Really need to get Loe involved on the offensive end. When he is a scorer/shooter we win. I think that is the key of the offensive side.

[slufan13]

I also agree that we can't let the guards get the ball in his hands. Mike and Jordair should hopefully be hounding Lewis, Barber and Turner. If we stop Lewis from getting into the lane like he did against X, we will stay firm in our man and not have to over-rotate. If we get beat off the dribble and are forced into a lot of rotations, then that is how Warren gets easy touches.

Great point. Warren is a great player, but the last thing we need to do is give him easy touches and easy baskets. Have to make it hard on him. That definitely involves what happens when he doesn't have the ball. Lewis is a good player but McCall/Jett should be able to and need to be able to contain him.

Im far more worried about slu getting back to effecient offensive scoring, than warren getting 50 points.

Absolutely. No more passing around 30 feet from the basket whether they play man or zone. We have to be aggressive, but under control. We can't turn the ball over. Warren is dominant in transition and once he gets in a rhythm, he's really hard to stop.

[brianstl]

I think we are more in agreement than you think. I don't expect us to hold Warren to 4 points like UVa did or even to under 15. You saying all we can do is "limit him somewhat" is spot on. All I'm saying is that on a team that relies so heavily on one player, even just limiting him by a few baskets can be the difference, as evidenced by those numbers I posted (at least my interpration of the numbers. I could also be reading too much into them).

I also agree that we can't let the guards get the ball in his hands. Mike and Jordair should hopefully be hounding Lewis, Barber and Turner. If we stop Lewis from getting into the lane like he did against X, we will stay firm in our man and not have to over-rotate. If we get beat off the dribble and are forced into a lot of rotations, then that is how Warren gets easy touches.

I think we are in pretty close agreement.

Make no mistake about it, that is still game planning against him. And saying not to game plan against one of the most prolific scorers in the nation is absurd

The question asked in the first post in this thread was who you put on Warren to stop him. If that is what they are game planning then they are wasting their time. That is not how you are going to limit him at all. We don't have anyone on the roster that can do that. No player manning Warren is going to stop him and I think the coaching staff is smart enough not to waste time game planning to try to do that.

[Taj79]

No one advocated "letting him go uncontested." You never do that. Brina is righ ton in pointing out the intiial question was how to stop Warren. You can't.