Should this Rivalry End?

[thetorch]

I am well aware that SLU has very few natural rivalries, much less ones that generate any interest locally, especially in a down year like this.

Still I've had enough. SIUC and the valley as a whole play junk basketball. The Valley refs let them play it that way so more power to them. I wish SLU had a home court advantage like SIUC does.

Even in a good year can we go down to carbondale and win? Probably not. So why continue this series if it isn't fair?

This is how the valley has decided to play. It isn't basketball though. Why reward them by going there to play? Xavier ended their series with Creighton for that very reason. Why play somewhere where rules are thrown out the window, you have little chance of winning, and a good chance that one of your players gets hurt.

[SLUDrew]

I am well aware that SLU has very few natural rivalries, much less ones that generate any interest locally, especially in a down year like this.

Still I've had enough. SIUC and the valley as a whole play junk basketball. The Valley refs let them play it that way so more power to them. I wish SLU had a home court advantage like SIUC does.

Even in a good year can we go down to carbondale and win? Probably not. So why continue this series if it isn't fair?

This is how the valley has decided to play. It isn't basketball though. Why reward them by going there to play? Xavier ended their series with Creighton for that very reason. Why play somewhere where rules are thrown out the window, you have little chance of winning, and a good chance that one of your players gets hurt.

As much as I can't stand what the officials let SIU get away with when the games are in Carbondale, I would not want this series to end. It is always a great early test and a good opportunity for young players to get toughened up a little bit. I agree that it will always be tough to when there, no matter how good we are, I don't think that that is a good reason to end a series.

[GoBills]

No. Agree I'm not a fan of that style of play, but that's not a reason to end the series. It's good to play against a variety of styles. SLU won in St. Louis last year and I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills won back here again next year. Bring em on and keep the series going.

[mtripp]

I am well aware that SLU has very few natural rivalries, much less ones that generate any interest locally, especially in a down year like this.

Still I've had enough. SIUC and the valley as a whole play junk basketball. The Valley refs let them play it that way so more power to them. I wish SLU had a home court advantage like SIUC does.

Even in a good year can we go down to carbondale and win? Probably not. So why continue this series if it isn't fair?

This is how the valley has decided to play. It isn't basketball though. Why reward them by going there to play? Xavier ended their series with Creighton for that very reason. Why play somewhere where rules are thrown out the window, you have little chance of winning, and a good chance that one of your players gets hurt.

They were a10 refs u boob!!!!!!!!! How does crow taste?

[AlumniFan]

They were a10 refs u boob!!!!!!!!! How does crow taste?

I am not sure who the refs were, but on the radio broadcast, Bob Ramsey complained about the officiating and specifically said that the refs were NOT A10 refs. Maybe he was wrong, but he specifically said that they were not. I heard it as I was driving home from practice. He mentioned this in the context of saying how awful A10 officiating normally was but that they could not use the A10 refs as an excuse in this game.

Just passing on what I heard.

[thetorch]

They were a10 refs u boob!!!!!!!!! How does crow taste?

Sorry I looked them up. Borowski has very limited experience in D-1 but all of that experience is Mo Valley teams. Wymer has never reffed an A-10 game. He primarily does MAC, Summit and MVC games. Gladden primarily refs games in the Colonial and MEAC. He has reffed 4 games for Duke this year. He has reffed 12 A-10 games in a 12 year career.

[billikenfan05]

I say play them here next year. Then cut off the series.

[troutangler]

This thread is idiotic. For a SLU fan to call the Valley "junk basketball" is pretty hilarious. Furthermore, there is no such thing as "Valley refs". Countless message board experts claim this every year. Most officials work in multiple conferences and none that I know of are employed exclusively by one conference. Hardly anyone goes to Carbondale and wins, so get over yourselves.

[thetorch]

This thread is idiotic. For a SLU fan to call the Valley "junk basketball" is pretty hilarious. Furthermore, there is no such thing as "Valley refs". Countless message board experts claim this every year. Most officials work in multiple conferences and none that I know of are employed exclusively by one conference. Hardly anyone goes to Carbondale and wins, so get over yourselves.

It is junk basketball. Basketball is a non contact sport. The way the valley plays it is wrong and I don't like watching it.

I have no problem with the valley per se. Mid majors (SLU included) are at a severe disadvantage. The valley has been pretty successful. Their conference and their teams have figured out a way to win with lesser talent. SLU hasn't yet.

I know no one wins in carbondale. So why go there? To lose, to get maimed on the court, and then lose recruiting battles off the court. It isn't worth it to me anymore. SIUC has stacked the deck. When we have a similar setup in place at SLU fine trade wins with them year after year but we don't. It isn't a fair playing field so why continue it.

Refs do work for conferences. There are refs who primarily do valley games. I would term these as valley refs.

[billikenfan05]

If you look at those three refs that did the game today on statsheet.com, there seems to be a trend of less fouls called in games they ref for the valley. You cannot tell me that its because Valley teams play clean.

[BLIKNS]

I say we should try to join the Valley. Oh no here we go again.

[davidnark]

It is a great series, and now the last 9 games have been won by the home team so the home court advantage cuts both ways. Why in the world would we cut off the annual game with one of our few rivals?

[Taj79]

Sorry .. there is no way a series like this should end. For all the folks complaining about the Savannah States and Samfords and Libertys of the world, no way you drop a local and recruiting rival like SIU or Mo State. Just should not happen.

I'd give my review but that would be based on a box score review and I have been b8tched for about that in the past. Pretty amaxzing foul totals, however, and the Post talks about a technical on Majerus and one on Liddell.

Sounds like a mugging was in progress. All you can do is amass enough talent in order to overcome the balancing act that a home court brings to the table. We didn't score for the first six minutes of the game so we step off the boat into the bucket right away. Again, I don't find this result surprising. When I asked about the impending three game road trip, I asked what was reasonable in terms of expectations. Thicks said one win, and that was at Detroit. We didn't get that so what's one to expect last night? Oddsmakers give four points for the home advantage. They beat us by 16. With a 12-0 run to end the game. I'd call that youth and inexperience to the nth degree.

[billiken_roy]

it isnt the fault of the valley that the refs are losers. the one ref, the tall skinny bald man, was actually far more biased to slu. the other two though rarely blew their whistle and when they did it was only to call fouls on slu (for transgressions far less than what they turned their heads at the other end) and to call technicals on slu.

if we scraped under the fingernails of mullins and the two players that took liddell last night, there is no doubt we'd find lish and liddell's dna. what they were allowed to do compared to slu (27-20 fouls called) considering the contrasting styles of play is ridiculous.

[MusicCityBilliken]

No way!

The way I look at it, it is our only real rivalry we have. It is the only school we can develop any hate with (necessary ingredient for a rivalry).

Like it or not we are in a situation that Mizzou won't play us and we are in a conference that at best gives us only quasi-rivalries with only X and Dayton. So we need to continue the MO State and SIU rivalry. I suggest we start calling the SIU rivalry the 'Cross River War' or some other crazy name.

Back when SIU-Edwardsville had a good soccer team (back in the late 60's and early 70's) we used to have the 'Bronze Boot' game yearly. Maybe something like this can be initiated with SIU.

[Box and Won]

SIU is pretty much the only thing resembling a rivalry we have right now. I definitely would not want to discontinue the series.

[Taj79]

I just went back and read the Game Prediction thread. While there are the usual homer picks where we are gonna kick their collective arses --- one even predicted a tongue-in-cheek shutout --- there are some on there that were prophetic ---- picking the muggings and the fouls and the home court advantage and refs swallowing whistles.

Again, what surprised who?

[Cowboy]

it isnt the fault of the valley that the refs are losers. the one ref, the tall skinny bald man, was actually far more biased to slu. the other two though rarely blew their whistle and when they did it was only to call fouls on slu (for transgressions far less than what they turned their heads at the other end) and to call technicals on slu.

if we scraped under the fingernails of mullins and the two players that took liddell last night, there is no doubt we'd find lish and liddell's dna. what they were allowed to do compared to slu (27-20 fouls called) considering the contrasting styles of play is ridiculous.

-if these were not mvc refs, i agree

-if these were mvc refs wouldn't the league have something to say about how their games are officiated?

-and maybe the league does say on defense you can have a hand on the opponent ALL THE TIME and you can mug the opponent and basically do anything but put them in the hospital but i as an official will be much less likely to call a foul or a violation on the mvc team

-might be a bit extreme but the constant hand check was a great defensive tool for them

-i don;'t like the kind of game that was played last night, not because we lost, becaue to me it was not basketball, it more resembled wrestling

[bauman]

it isnt the fault of the valley that the refs are losers. the one ref, the tall skinny bald man, was actually far more biased to slu. the other two though rarely blew their whistle and when they did it was only to call fouls on slu (for transgressions far less than what they turned their heads at the other end) and to call technicals on slu.

if we scraped under the fingernails of mullins and the two players that took liddell last night, there is no doubt we'd find lish and liddell's dna. what they were allowed to do compared to slu (27-20 fouls called) considering the contrasting styles of play is ridiculous.

Look at the picture in today's P-D. KL was clearly getting hacked as he shot. I went back and watched the game on TIVO and guess what, this play was not one of the times when Kevin was sent to the line for being fouled in the act of shooting. Hum ...... Almost as bad as the charging foul on KL that caused RM to get the technical. The SIU homer announcers (including Scott W. from St. Louis) called it a 50/50 play after watching the replay. I guess one of us-them or me-have no clue as to what constitutes a Charge. On TIVO it is obvious that the defender stepped over in front of KL after he had left his feet. That's a charge

[p diddy]

The rivalry has been a home-court dominated series because of the way the games are called. In C-Dale, the Salukis and rough and tumble the Bills without worrying about too many whistles. Back in St. Lou, it's been hard to stop Tommie, Kevin, Marquee when you cannot clutch and grab them for 40 minutes. Fouls are actually called. That's why the home team wins most of the time. I suspect the Billikens will win next year at Chaifetz.

bad boyz for life

[cheeseman]

Look at the picture in today's P-D. KL was clearly getting hacked as he shot. I went back and watched the game on TIVO and guess what, this play was not one of the times when Kevin was sent to the line for being fouled in the act of shooting. Hum ...... Almost as bad as the charging foul on KL that caused RM to get the technical. The SIU homer announcers (including Scott W. from St. Louis) called it a 50/50 play after watching the replay. I guess one of us-them or me-have no clue as to what constitutes a Charge. On TIVO it is obvious that the defender stepped over in front of KL after he had left his feet. That's a charge

I am confused you say it was not a charge but then you say it was a charge did you mean to put a ? behind your last sentence?

I actually would not mind playing the series every other year. The rival thing does little for me with a team out of our conf which gets little overall TV exposure. I like playing other teams from around the country - variety is what I would vote for.

[Cowboy]

-i think the games with siu need to continue, and also with mosu

[bauman]

I am confused you say it was not a charge but then you say it was a charge did you mean to put a ? behind your last sentence?

I actually would not mind playing the series every other year. The rival thing does little for me with a team out of our conf which gets little overall TV exposure. I like playing other teams from around the country - variety is what I would vote for.

Sorry, I dropped the word "not" from the last sentence, it should have followed that's.

[satrap]

Actually, we're lucky SIUE has gone DI to give us another potential rival, along with their big brothers to the south. The last thing SLU needs is a less interesting hoops schedule, which is what we would have without SIU.

[Box and Won]

Actually, we're lucky SIUE has gone DI to give us another potential rival, along with their big brothers to the south. The last thing SLU needs is a less interesting hoops schedule, which is what we would have without SIU.

A must-schedule, IMO. They should have been on the schedule this year.